Follow-up Comparison TS-590S vs K-3 and FTDX-5000 Time owned: 0 to 3 months
Wrote this for my FCG gang, but of interest to many.
Received the K-3 back from Elecraft with a note that said it exceeded specs.
Since they knew I was doing a comparison reviews, they asked me to turn off the 2nd receiver because there is a 3dB loss when both receivers are active since they share the same front end and the signal is split. They also asked that I set all radios to the same NR/DSP/filter/ etc.
So I did. I completely revamped the shack since it had grown in stages as I added gear and was becoming somewhat of a rat's nest of cables and wires, many without tags so that I was constantly tracing cables to see what when where. Removed everything, designed a layout, and marked every cable. I have pictures of the setup; three rigs in a line with an "ABC" switch to quickly switch from one to other.
Some minutiae:
YAESU FTDX-5000 K-3 Kenwood TS-590S
Knobs 90/8 Concentric 45/2 Conc 47/2 Concentric (Most are dual/multiple function)
Antenna Ports 4/1RX 2/1RX 2/1RX
(Not incl Transverters, etc)
Size/Weight
Yaesu FTDX-5000 18.2x5.3x15.3/ 46.3lbs
Elecraft K-3 11.1x 4.4x11.8/9.5lbs
Kenwood TS-590S 10.63x3.78x11.46/16.3lbs (Width/height/depth ", Lbs)
SW Updates 2 1 0
(Since purchase 8/10)
Cost: $5,600(w/300Hz Roofing) $4,100(2nd RX/Filters) $1,800
See the respective manuals for the details. Many ask about the TX/RX EQ capabilities. Both the Yaesu and the K-3 use parametric EQ, but with different methods. The K-3 uses a more traditional 8 segment band with adjustments of -16 to +16dB in each segment; while the Yaesu uses a nine segment matrix of center frequency, parametric gain, and Q (bandwidth) with -20dB to +10dB in the matrix. There is a completely separate matrix for "Processor On." The Kenwood sounds absolutely great out of the box, but offers seven different preset selections separately for both TX and RX, or you can roll your own with their ARCP-590 software designed for the TS-590S.
Unique features:
Yaesu FTDX-5000: Control your Yaesu rotor from the front panel; sloped AGC setting which preserves the "relative" signal strength of stations; individually programmable CW key ports; built-in voice/cw keyer/RX recorder; bandscope w/ hi fi speakers (D & MP models); DMU-2000 with the FTDX-5000 updated SW gives you finals temp, SWR chart across band, most radio settings, bandscope, etc etc.
Elecraft K-3: Built-in PSK-RTTY-CW decoder; super-fast ATU; phase locked dual diversity receivers (2nd RX option - tks Lu and Joe); built-in voice/CW keyer (option);
Kenwood TS-590S: Excellent ATU. Fast and tunes almost anything. Intuitive front panel with great graphical display of bandwidth/filtering; very good NB and NR; really great audio out of the box
How do they work? Remember, I'm primarily a CW guy so my opinion is somewhat biased.
Spent the first evening sorting through the pile-ups on 40CW, mainly to see how effective they were at digging out the weak signals sandwiched between big signals. And when the DX wasn't working split, that was real work. I did use Joe's recommended settings for the K-3, because like Will, I just can't get used to the high pitched noise hiss. Lu calls it "edgy", but my ears were trained on old tube rigs, and I guess I'm just dragging OOTC ears into this fray. Joe's settings weren't that far away from the ones I used before, but I still find the K-3 tiring to listen to. Rob Sherwood did an excellent analysis of the K-3 and found it superior in almost every aspect, but he did find the 9th order harmonics could be tiring for extended use.
High impedance headphones should significantly reduce this. I tried my Heil Pro Plus, Bose QC3's, my favorite Optimus Titanium 'phones, and various others here in the shack, but just couldn't get used to that "edgy" sound.
I have no lack of ESP signals up here in the high mountains of the "black hole", especially from EU and AF; nothing like those great signals in Florida! Set up on 40CW with a huge pile-up on a weak African, and once again, I am amazed to barely hear the weak signal muddled in the noise level on the K-3 and on the Kenwood, but it's Q5 when switched to the Yaesu FTDX-5000; still weak, but perfectly readable. This was repeated time after time, first on 40CW and then on 80CW. 20M wasn't really open or suitable, so stuck with 40M and 80M. The Kenwood TS-590S was the equal to the K-3 in every test, able to hear the weak CW signal, but not able to copy like the Yaesu. After Elecraft's assurances that my K-3 "exceeded specs", I can only conclude that the FTDX-5000 is much better than I had expected.
And the TS-590S proved to be worthy of the fan-fare preceding its release.
I don't think it's a K-3 "killer", but it is a very serious competitor, especially at its price point.
The two most important things for a CW contester are noise floor and dynamic range. All three have excellent dynamic range, at least in my ABC comparisons in crowded conditions and published specs, but I still found the noise floor of the K-3 too high to my ears, at least compared with the Yaesu and the Kenwood. I'm going to drag out my TS-570SG and TS-2000 for a quick comparison, since comparing these three high tech, quasi-SDR radios to each other will probably be on another plateau from my older rigs. They are all three marvelous radios and represent a quantum leap forward. I wish I had a FLEX5000 to compare. My friend, W4MO, has been trying to get me to buy one for two years now.
Switched to SSB, where close in spacing is not such a big deal as with CW, and there the difference was not so obvious. The Yaesu still did a wonderful job isolating the weak signals, but the difference was not so evident. The Kenwood had that great "broadcast" audio sound that is a Kenwood tradition but could use one more roofing filter (maybe 1.8), but the K-3 was a very effective SSB radio; very crisp audio and great signal isolation with the filtering system. I can see why it is a favorite with SSB contesters; but I still preferred the Yaesu over the K-3 or the Kenwood; for me it was just more comfortable to use. In on air tests, almost everyone gave all three very high marks for the audio. I had a round-table on 75SSB and they were delighted to compare ABC without my telling them which was which. Some liked the Yaesu because it "sounded bigger", but they were the weaker stations and the Yaesu's slightly higher power was more than likely the difference.
I have been very impressed with this Kenwood TS-590S. With its price point, it is a lot of radio for the money. It has great audio and very pleasant to listen to like the Yaesu. I could probably get used to the K-3, but listening to the other two for extended periods on CW would not be as tiring as I find the K-3 on CW.
Which is the best? Depends on what you want. As Charlie, 'VUD, pointed out, they are more similar than different. The value rig is the Kenwood TS-590S which is an amazing radio for the money. I predict they will sell tons of them! The do-everything, Swiss Army knife K-3 is a great SSB contesting rig that you can tailor to your desires but that may take a while. Lu pointed out that he is finally comfortable with his after almost a year. But my personal choice is the Yaesu FTDX-5000 for all around operation. Almost every feature you could want, tailoring to whatever you wish, and solid feel and build. It was my go-to radio every time conditions and copy got rough. You won't go wrong with any of these.
Pravi UKV uredaj-i ??? . . . . di su do sada bili :o ? !
73 PJT
Svi imaju 50mhz i izlaz za transverter ;)
E , sigurno ce radi te dvi stvari obican puk navalit da ih uzme :P
73 PJT
Pa dosta naroda koristi IC 756 pro3 kao IF rig a ovde su dva dosta jeftinija od ovog ICOM-a...
Quote from: 9a7pjt on 21. October. 2010, 09:01:01
E , sigurno ce radi te dvi stvari obican puk navalit da ih uzme :P
73 PJT
Čemu boldanje?
Specifikacije novog TS-590S deluju prilicno lepo a kako ce se pokazati u praksi tek cemo videti.
Iz reklamne brosure nisam uspeo zakljuciti da li je i Kenwood potpuno izbacio opciju za ugradnju
Collins CW filtera i sve prepustio DSP kao Icom - ako je tako mene onda mnogo manje zanima ...
Rad na IC-756 Pro III me je prilicno razocarao jer meni DSP nikako ne moze zameniti klasican CW
filter, pa makar on bio i 500Hz ... svidja mi se sto nije veliki - taman istih dimenzija kao FT-847
tako da bi bas bili lep par na mom radnom stolu ali za sada takva investicija za sada meni je van
domasaja ... :'(
Danas sam razgovarao sa YU1EA, pocetkom novembra imace 6 komada za potencijalne kupce
Cena: 1500 Euro + 18% PDV
73, Popa, YU7EF
Quote from: 9a4ew on 21. October. 2010, 17:18:25
Quote from: 9a7pjt on 21. October. 2010, 09:01:01
E , sigurno ce radi te dvi stvari obican puk navalit da ih uzme :P
73 PJT
Čemu boldanje?
Prevedi :( .
73 PJT